Spirit of the games
With the badminton players being expelled for 'not playing their best' and trying to manipulate a future match up, I have to admit to being a bit concerned about Norio Sasaki's alleged attempts to 'engineer' a draw against S.Africa so as to remain in Cardiff.
Apparently today the Japanese players have issued an 'apology', which makes me think something did occur that I'm sure they are not happy with.
I can full understand resting your best players and giving everyone a game, but apparently instructing players to 'not to be aggressive in winning the game', if indeed that's what happened, can't be right.
Also if, as has been mentioned, he was trying to avoid playing certain teams, then isn't he telling his players they aren't good enough to play France etc?. and what kind of effect can that have on a players confidence.?
Maybe I'm just looking at it all wrong, but 'not trying to win' surely is the antithesis of the meaning of sport, Olympic or otherwise.
I love the Nadeshiko, and hopefully they will rise above this.
Terry
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Highlander Saxy on
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If this relay happened like this, I must say they have to be treated like the badminton players :-(
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Permalink Reply by Women's Soccer United on -
This is a really interesting point Terence, thank you for creating this discussion. During the Japan game a lot of people were pointing out the Japanese performance, it seemed so out of character and anything can happen in the games it could have gone wrong for them, what if South Africa scored another wonder strike.
I started to think that they were trying to avoid France, but you are right doing it this way will have a negative effect on the player's as they should be thinking they can beat anyone to take gold, they are the world champions they need to find that belief and play how we know and love.
Be interesting to see what happens when they play Brazil.
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Permalink Reply by Gromit on -
Yes, you're right Terrence. And I'm another Nadeshiko's fan. I agree with you even if I feel relieved not to have Japan-France in QF, in order to leave a chance to my two teams to have a medal at the end. We can't feel at ease with what happened. It's not cheating in any way, of course and there is nothing in common with Germany-Austria in 1982 WC who didn't really play in order to eliminate Algeria. That's different. But as you said, it's not really in Olympics spirit.
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Permalink Reply by Terence Fullick on
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I agree it will be very interesting what happens in the Brazil game, I just don't think players need to be manipulated if that's the word, the Nadeshiko are World Champions and they won it by playing with heart and an inspiring love of their country after the terrible earthquake tragedy, to beat a fantastic USA team in the final was just amazing to watch, I just think those wonderful players deserve better than this, they are the last people on earth who should be apologizing.
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Permalink Reply by Izzy on -
"Japan failed to score for a second consecutive match, drawing 0-0 with South Africa, which exits the tournament. Having already secured a quarterfinal spot, Japan coach Norio Sasaki began the match with just four regular starters."
"It was the coach's instruction that we wanted to stay in Cardiff and come second in the group, so I knew that the bench were getting information about the other match and I had been told," Japan defender Azusa Iwashimizu said. "It is something we needed to do in order to get a medal."
I think was wrong what japanese coach did... I hope we kick japanese asses in next match...but if not... France or USA will do.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brazil-plays-japan-womens-olympic-2300...
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on -
Gromit´s point is well made. I watched that dreadful match in 1982. The only blessing is that Italy defeated Germany in the final and Austria is no longer of any significance. Good riddance.
Nevertheless, the organisers must take the blame. It is the duty of the manager to pilot the team to the gold. Japan chose to take this route. It was open to them but neither to Sweden nor Canada.
Who can blame the Japanese? They recently were outplayed by France and lost 0-2. Better avoid the devil you know will trounce you and take your chances with a team that is over the hill and past its sell-by-date.
The English FA has fined teams even quite recently, for not fielding their best teams. Nevertheless, commentators have been quick to point out that the top teams like Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs etc, have not been subject to censure when they have rested players in domestic matches to prepare for CL matches. In this case, one assumes that the Japanese squad is the best Japan can lay its hands on, and in the final analysis it is up to the players on the field.
The obvious way to avoid this nonsense is to have a straight knockout competition. Whether one allows seeding or simply draw each round like the FA cup does, is an interesting question. (In the FA cup the top teams only enter after a few rounds, and that model could be used here.)
In short, do not blame the Japanese. Blame the organisers. They screwed up; they put it right. They can start by refunding the money paid for the tickets to that match.
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Permalink Reply by Gromit on
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Yes, Terrence, you're right.
I tried to think about it all a bit more in the last couple of hours.
Things are very complicate. People reproach Japan for not having done everything to win against South Africa.
First, it's very different from the Badmington's story in which some players lost on purpose. Not try to win (having a draw) or do one's best to lose is very different, isn't it ?
Second, if we severely condemn Japan"s attitude of "calculations", what will we do about Athletes in individual competitions ? It's so usual to see great champions sparing their energy in qualifying runs, QF or SF. What will we say to Boilt if he doesn't run at full speed and let his opponent win in QF or SF, when he is sure to go through ? We see this kind of thing all the time, in Athletics, Swimming...
That would have been different if Japan, thanks to its way of playing or not playing, has provoked another team elimination (as Germany and Austria did in 1982 WC towards Algeria). But here, that was not the case at all. It was not a qualifying match since Japan was already qualified before the match.
All in all, the Japanese, coach and players, were probably too honest by just explaining their tactic. And I think that this so-called affair is not one and more a controversy built - maybe - in order to destabilize the World Champions in the end. Just imagine the Tabloids headlines if Women's football was more popular or if Japan had to meet GB instead of Brazil in QF... Then, you would seen the built controversy very clearly. [Unless you're a gutter press' fan, of course ;o)
I hope that the Nadeshiko will give the best answer by beating Brazil and playing their best football.
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on
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It is not a great point. The duty of the Japanese manager is to take his team to the final and preferably win it. That is his job. Nothing less; nothing more.
In this case the blame lies with the organisers of the tournament. They made the bed. They lie in it.
The issue about the badminton players include the difference that the players of one country wanted to avoid meeting those of their own country later on. This is not the issue here.
The Australians were upset that North-Korea were allowed to play in this tournament in spite of being banned by FIFA from the next world cup. The IOC decides the participants in this competition, not FIFA. Fortunately, France buried the North-Koreans and USA finished the job. It would be altogether fitting if the final is between France and USA.
Asa said:Great point Terence.
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on
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No. They did what the organisers gave them the opportunity to do. As Gromit points out elsewhere, this has occurred before, so there is no excuse for the organisers. The organisers failed in making an honest competition. Put the blame where it belongs, please.
Highlander Saxy said:If this relay happened like this, I must say they have to be treated like the badminton players :-(
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on
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It would not have mattered if RSA had beaten Japan. They had 4 points and would have finished either 3rd or 2nd, depending on what happened in the Sweden Canada match. Japan had this luxury, and they made maximum use of it.
RSA were unable to exploit the chance that Japan offered them. Too bad.
The blame lies with the organisers, not Japan. As Gromit points out, this has happened before and there is no reason to repeat previous errors. Shame on the organisers. Blame where blame is due, please.
Women's Soccer United said:This is a really interesting point Terence, thank you for creating this discussion. During the Japan game a lot of people were pointing out the Japanese performance, it seemed so out of character and anything can happen in the games it could have gone wrong for them, what if South Africa scored another wonder strike.
I started to think that they were trying to avoid France, but you are right doing it this way will have a negative effect on the player's as they should be thinking they can beat anyone to take gold, they are the world champions they need to find that belief and play how we know and love.
Be interesting to see what happens when they play Brazil.
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on
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I respectfully disagree, Gromit. Terrence is not right. You are right.
The organisers are at fault. The error of the Japanese is not to stonewall. never apologise; never explain -- a famous motto that they should have remembered.
Gromit said:Yes, Terrence, you're right.
I tried to think about it all a bit more in the last couple of hours.
Things are very complicate. People reproach Japan for not having done everything to win against South Africa.
First, it's very different from the Badmington's story in which some players lost on purpose. Not try to win (having a draw) or do one's best to lose is very different, isn't it ?
Second, if we severely condemn Japan"s attitude of "calculations", what will we do about Athletes in individual competitions ? It's so usual to see great champions sparing their energy in qualifying runs, QF or SF. What will we say to Boilt if he doesn't run at full speed and let his opponent win in QF or SF, when he is sure to go through ? We see this kind of thing all the time, in Athletics, Swimming...
That would have been different if Japan, thanks to its way of playing or not playing, has provoked another team elimination (as Germany and Austria did in 1982 WC towards Algeria). But here, that was not the case at all. It was not a qualifying match since Japan was already qualified before the match.
All in all, the Japanese, coach and players, were probably too honest by just explaining their tactic. And I think that this so-called affair is not one and more a controversy built - maybe - in order to destabilize the World Champions in the end. Just imagine the Tabloids headlines if Women's football was more popular or if Japan had to meet GB instead of Brazil in QF... Then, you would seen the built controversy very clearly. [Unless you're a gutter press' fan, of course ;o)
I hope that the Nadeshiko will give the best answer by beating Brazil and playing their best football.
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