Which League Was Better: WUSA or WPS?
Both leagues lasted three years. I am curious to know which you think was a better league, the WUSA (2001-2003) or WPS (2009-2011).
I am going to say that the WUSA was better. The talent and the competition were more interesting to me.
Dave
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Murray on -
great community call. i think locally it needs to be a greater all community to community. all men sports started smaller, not larger, like womens sports today.
Lars Breimer said:The award of the 2015 world cup to Canada fits with a strategy by FIFA (and UEFA) to get women´s professional soccer up and running again in USA. The opportunity for young ladies to come and play in USA and for a large pool of north-American ladies being available to go and play abroad, seems fundamental to the success of ladies soccer in whatever country. Verily, ladies´ football could become a whole new aspect of international interaction and relationships. The US State Department ought to see this opportunity and get in on the act.
Women Soccer United can help by kicking around ideas how to build on the ruins of previous attempts and get ladies´ professional soccer going in USA. An enormous number of girls in America play soccer as they grow up, which is not the case in other countries, so the pool of talent is there. Maybe if each person could provide one single idea or suggestion that they would consider most important for success, then something might emerge. As the readers and commentators in this forum watch women´s soccer matches, what strikes them as the missing ingredient or something which seems to make a difference. Each one will have their take on the issue and there are no right or wrong ideas at this stage.
To make it more real. Imagine that you are sitting next to a very wealthy person at dinner who says: “I am thinking of investing in women´s soccer in USA. With what should I start? Please give me one or two, but not twenty, pointers!”
Richard Murray said:We agree state based is best but for small states or certain regions region is best.
I have no problem with the CL's changes over the years. Yes, it is unfair but on the other hand, people want to see the best and giving advantages to the best still doesnt undermine unpredictability, Real and Barca were not in the final. I have no problem with the womens CL mirroring the mens, I would say, women need instead of a second tier in UEFA, a different tournament. My problem with the CL and the Europa is that they collide. For women's soccer the uefa womens CL should be for the top teams in the league tables and they should have a womens euro for the cup tournament champions and runners up. The womens CL and womens Euro can be the same time of the week and represent the difference between teams strong in league seasons[CL] and teams strong in cup tournaments[EUro] it would also make a matchup of the champions to start the uefa season honest as the members of the compeititon would be from two different pathways completely. The men make the mistake of letting the losers in the UEFA CL go into the euro and letting the league tables decide who goes into the euro. LEague and cup play are different. the women can use the UEFA womens CL to let the best in league have it out, but they can use a womens euro to focus on cup play seperately.
Lars Breimer said:By state would be best because people associate with their state. On the other hand you have the New England Patriots in the NFL, so the principle of a regional team with a stadium in an outer suburb of the biggest town is established in USA.
The UEFA men´s CL consists of group-play (home & away) followed by a knockout competition also home & away. The final is played as one single match. Teams that get knocked out early go to a second men´s cup (the Europa cup). My criticism of how the men´s CL is organised is that UEFA has sold out to capital and size. So far the ladies CL has not, though there are worrying trends. (There is no second tier UEFA cup for ladies.)
Briefly, in the men´s CL the big country leagues get more slots than the smaller country leagues, and some small countries even have to qualify in. In the old UEFA system there were 3 different cups but essentially countries had (almost) equal entry. Well understood, the small fry disappeared early but, occasionally you got a giant killing, which is what sport needs. Fairness and unpredicatbility.
Marketing and sales want an easy life with big numbers, and since the business of America is business, this plague will be visited on women´s soccer in USA unless the USA FA learns from the NFL. The NHL eventually did but it took them an awfully long time, and they are not quite there yet.
Given how cheap ladies soccer is, it is amazing that there is not a functioning ladies´ league in USA. Maybe the achilles heal is the high quality of the university (college) system?
Richard Murray said:You know my views, definitely regionality, i prefer by state, but I think the idea of yu and others by geosocial region is fine as well
and i referred to the mens CL in my little thesis. I think it definitely has to be like the uefa men's CL. And, those numbers you give can work.
Lars Breimer said:The number of matches would be one issue. Another might be the travel (unless regionalised).
For example, today a league with 12 teams play 132 home- & away matches. To have the same number of matches in a straight knock-out tournament you need to start either with 256 teams (128 matches). In a league or in the current CL format the teams get two bites at the cherry because they meet each other twice, in which case you could run with 64 teams.
64 teams means on average 1 team per state in the USA. In the FA cup, but not in the ladies´ CL, the stronger teams enter the competition later. In other words, the first couple of rounds weed out the weaker teams and get the less weak a chance to advance. If you start with 128 teams you would have 2 per state + 28 extra.
In the FA cup and also in the ladies´ CL cup, each round is drawn -- ie there is no seeding. The men´s CL is more like a world cup with matches in groups with seeding followed by the knockout phase, all home-&-away. Maybe if the men´s CL was the model it might work for the FALCUS or US-alpha-Cup?
Richard Murray said:What is the biggest detriment to this path being chosen LArs?
Lars Breimer said:Agreed. An excellent idea. The USALFA Cup. Or, maybe, the FALCUS.
Richard Murray said:I think the next replacement for top tier womens soccer in the USA shouldn't be another leauge but a US Open Cup for Women designed like the UEFA CL, nothing is stopping it from happening now
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on -
Your point is well taken, Richard, but I think the approach must be much more radical. If a product does not sell one has two options. One can either market it better unchanged or tweak it to make it more appealing. Essentially, define what job the product does and make sure it does it. The customer is always right. USA has twice rejected women´s professional soccer and the professional game is only surviving in Europe because of subsidies.
The path of tweaking the product is illustrated by rugby and women´s basketball. The game of rugby today is very different from 45 years ago. The Rugby Union realised that the game was losing appeal and started to experiment with law changes to make it more entertaining, attractive if you prefer. They succeeded. Women play basket with a slightly smaller ball and slightly longer shot clock and shorter playing time. The ladies´ Final Four has great viewing figures and quite a lot of college games are televised. High time to tweak the game of ladies´ soccer to improve its performance.
It is too late to make rule changes in the Olympic tournament but next season is a good one to experiment in because Euro-13 will be a watershed. It simply has to succeed. My proposal would be:
-- a) a slightly smaller ball to make ball control possible;
-- b) 40 min halves.
I am aware that these ideas are not original and have been rejected in the past but these are desperate times.
As regards expanding the customer base one can either extend its borders bit by bit or identify a totally unexploited market and take it. Colour TV or plasma screens are examples of product improvement while the transistor radio is a good example of opening up a whole new market. Ladies´ football needs to find its transistor radio.
Richard Murray said:great community call. i think locally it needs to be a greater all community to community. all men sports started smaller, not larger, like womens sports today.
Lars Breimer said:The award of the 2015 world cup to Canada fits with a strategy by FIFA (and UEFA) to get women´s professional soccer up and running again in USA. The opportunity for young ladies to come and play in USA and for a large pool of north-American ladies being available to go and play abroad, seems fundamental to the success of ladies soccer in whatever country. Verily, ladies´ football could become a whole new aspect of international interaction and relationships. The US State Department ought to see this opportunity and get in on the act.
Women Soccer United can help by kicking around ideas how to build on the ruins of previous attempts and get ladies´ professional soccer going in USA. An enormous number of girls in America play soccer as they grow up, which is not the case in other countries, so the pool of talent is there. Maybe if each person could provide one single idea or suggestion that they would consider most important for success, then something might emerge. As the readers and commentators in this forum watch women´s soccer matches, what strikes them as the missing ingredient or something which seems to make a difference. Each one will have their take on the issue and there are no right or wrong ideas at this stage.
To make it more real. Imagine that you are sitting next to a very wealthy person at dinner who says: “I am thinking of investing in women´s soccer in USA. With what should I start? Please give me one or two, but not twenty, pointers!”
Richard Murray said:We agree state based is best but for small states or certain regions region is best.
I have no problem with the CL's changes over the years. Yes, it is unfair but on the other hand, people want to see the best and giving advantages to the best still doesnt undermine unpredictability, Real and Barca were not in the final. I have no problem with the womens CL mirroring the mens, I would say, women need instead of a second tier in UEFA, a different tournament. My problem with the CL and the Europa is that they collide. For women's soccer the uefa womens CL should be for the top teams in the league tables and they should have a womens euro for the cup tournament champions and runners up. The womens CL and womens Euro can be the same time of the week and represent the difference between teams strong in league seasons[CL] and teams strong in cup tournaments[EUro] it would also make a matchup of the champions to start the uefa season honest as the members of the compeititon would be from two different pathways completely. The men make the mistake of letting the losers in the UEFA CL go into the euro and letting the league tables decide who goes into the euro. LEague and cup play are different. the women can use the UEFA womens CL to let the best in league have it out, but they can use a womens euro to focus on cup play seperately.
Lars Breimer said:By state would be best because people associate with their state. On the other hand you have the New England Patriots in the NFL, so the principle of a regional team with a stadium in an outer suburb of the biggest town is established in USA.
The UEFA men´s CL consists of group-play (home & away) followed by a knockout competition also home & away. The final is played as one single match. Teams that get knocked out early go to a second men´s cup (the Europa cup). My criticism of how the men´s CL is organised is that UEFA has sold out to capital and size. So far the ladies CL has not, though there are worrying trends. (There is no second tier UEFA cup for ladies.)
Briefly, in the men´s CL the big country leagues get more slots than the smaller country leagues, and some small countries even have to qualify in. In the old UEFA system there were 3 different cups but essentially countries had (almost) equal entry. Well understood, the small fry disappeared early but, occasionally you got a giant killing, which is what sport needs. Fairness and unpredicatbility.
Marketing and sales want an easy life with big numbers, and since the business of America is business, this plague will be visited on women´s soccer in USA unless the USA FA learns from the NFL. The NHL eventually did but it took them an awfully long time, and they are not quite there yet.
Given how cheap ladies soccer is, it is amazing that there is not a functioning ladies´ league in USA. Maybe the achilles heal is the high quality of the university (college) system?
Richard Murray said:You know my views, definitely regionality, i prefer by state, but I think the idea of yu and others by geosocial region is fine as well
and i referred to the mens CL in my little thesis. I think it definitely has to be like the uefa men's CL. And, those numbers you give can work.
Lars Breimer said:The number of matches would be one issue. Another might be the travel (unless regionalised).
For example, today a league with 12 teams play 132 home- & away matches. To have the same number of matches in a straight knock-out tournament you need to start either with 256 teams (128 matches). In a league or in the current CL format the teams get two bites at the cherry because they meet each other twice, in which case you could run with 64 teams.
64 teams means on average 1 team per state in the USA. In the FA cup, but not in the ladies´ CL, the stronger teams enter the competition later. In other words, the first couple of rounds weed out the weaker teams and get the less weak a chance to advance. If you start with 128 teams you would have 2 per state + 28 extra.
In the FA cup and also in the ladies´ CL cup, each round is drawn -- ie there is no seeding. The men´s CL is more like a world cup with matches in groups with seeding followed by the knockout phase, all home-&-away. Maybe if the men´s CL was the model it might work for the FALCUS or US-alpha-Cup?
Richard Murray said:What is the biggest detriment to this path being chosen LArs?
Lars Breimer said:Agreed. An excellent idea. The USALFA Cup. Or, maybe, the FALCUS.
Richard Murray said:I think the next replacement for top tier womens soccer in the USA shouldn't be another leauge but a US Open Cup for Women designed like the UEFA CL, nothing is stopping it from happening now
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Permalink Reply by Richard Murray on
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I think you may have placed the largest question for women's sports in general. Do women get player playing the sports the way men play them or do sport rules change when women play them. Many women are against changing soccer's rules for them. Personally, looking at Lyon, I dont think it needs changing. We just have to wait it out. Women will get there, but they need time. It took time for the mens game to get this fast, why can't truly professional womens soccer be given a century as well? But, regardless of that query, womens soccer in the USA may make a change of how the game is played, but I doubt the change will occur outside of the USA.;
Lars Breimer said:Your point is well taken, Richard, but I think the approach must be much more radical. If a product does not sell one has two options. One can either market it better unchanged or tweak it to make it more appealing. Essentially, define what job the product does and make sure it does it. The customer is always right. USA has twice rejected women´s professional soccer and the professional game is only surviving in Europe because of subsidies.
The path of tweaking the product is illustrated by rugby and women´s basketball. The game of rugby today is very different from 45 years ago. The Rugby Union realised that the game was losing appeal and started to experiment with law changes to make it more entertaining, attractive if you prefer. They succeeded. Women play basket with a slightly smaller ball and slightly longer shot clock and shorter playing time. The ladies´ Final Four has great viewing figures and quite a lot of college games are televised. High time to tweak the game of ladies´ soccer to improve its performance.
It is too late to make rule changes in the Olympic tournament but next season is a good one to experiment in because Euro-13 will be a watershed. It simply has to succeed. My proposal would be:
-- a) a slightly smaller ball to make ball control possible;
-- b) 40 min halves.
I am aware that these ideas are not original and have been rejected in the past but these are desperate times.
As regards expanding the customer base one can either extend its borders bit by bit or identify a totally unexploited market and take it. Colour TV or plasma screens are examples of product improvement while the transistor radio is a good example of opening up a whole new market. Ladies´ football needs to find its transistor radio.
Richard Murray said:great community call. i think locally it needs to be a greater all community to community. all men sports started smaller, not larger, like womens sports today.
Lars Breimer said:The award of the 2015 world cup to Canada fits with a strategy by FIFA (and UEFA) to get women´s professional soccer up and running again in USA. The opportunity for young ladies to come and play in USA and for a large pool of north-American ladies being available to go and play abroad, seems fundamental to the success of ladies soccer in whatever country. Verily, ladies´ football could become a whole new aspect of international interaction and relationships. The US State Department ought to see this opportunity and get in on the act.
Women Soccer United can help by kicking around ideas how to build on the ruins of previous attempts and get ladies´ professional soccer going in USA. An enormous number of girls in America play soccer as they grow up, which is not the case in other countries, so the pool of talent is there. Maybe if each person could provide one single idea or suggestion that they would consider most important for success, then something might emerge. As the readers and commentators in this forum watch women´s soccer matches, what strikes them as the missing ingredient or something which seems to make a difference. Each one will have their take on the issue and there are no right or wrong ideas at this stage.
To make it more real. Imagine that you are sitting next to a very wealthy person at dinner who says: “I am thinking of investing in women´s soccer in USA. With what should I start? Please give me one or two, but not twenty, pointers!”
Richard Murray said:We agree state based is best but for small states or certain regions region is best.
I have no problem with the CL's changes over the years. Yes, it is unfair but on the other hand, people want to see the best and giving advantages to the best still doesnt undermine unpredictability, Real and Barca were not in the final. I have no problem with the womens CL mirroring the mens, I would say, women need instead of a second tier in UEFA, a different tournament. My problem with the CL and the Europa is that they collide. For women's soccer the uefa womens CL should be for the top teams in the league tables and they should have a womens euro for the cup tournament champions and runners up. The womens CL and womens Euro can be the same time of the week and represent the difference between teams strong in league seasons[CL] and teams strong in cup tournaments[EUro] it would also make a matchup of the champions to start the uefa season honest as the members of the compeititon would be from two different pathways completely. The men make the mistake of letting the losers in the UEFA CL go into the euro and letting the league tables decide who goes into the euro. LEague and cup play are different. the women can use the UEFA womens CL to let the best in league have it out, but they can use a womens euro to focus on cup play seperately.
Lars Breimer said:By state would be best because people associate with their state. On the other hand you have the New England Patriots in the NFL, so the principle of a regional team with a stadium in an outer suburb of the biggest town is established in USA.
The UEFA men´s CL consists of group-play (home & away) followed by a knockout competition also home & away. The final is played as one single match. Teams that get knocked out early go to a second men´s cup (the Europa cup). My criticism of how the men´s CL is organised is that UEFA has sold out to capital and size. So far the ladies CL has not, though there are worrying trends. (There is no second tier UEFA cup for ladies.)
Briefly, in the men´s CL the big country leagues get more slots than the smaller country leagues, and some small countries even have to qualify in. In the old UEFA system there were 3 different cups but essentially countries had (almost) equal entry. Well understood, the small fry disappeared early but, occasionally you got a giant killing, which is what sport needs. Fairness and unpredicatbility.
Marketing and sales want an easy life with big numbers, and since the business of America is business, this plague will be visited on women´s soccer in USA unless the USA FA learns from the NFL. The NHL eventually did but it took them an awfully long time, and they are not quite there yet.
Given how cheap ladies soccer is, it is amazing that there is not a functioning ladies´ league in USA. Maybe the achilles heal is the high quality of the university (college) system?
Richard Murray said:You know my views, definitely regionality, i prefer by state, but I think the idea of yu and others by geosocial region is fine as well
and i referred to the mens CL in my little thesis. I think it definitely has to be like the uefa men's CL. And, those numbers you give can work.
Lars Breimer said:The number of matches would be one issue. Another might be the travel (unless regionalised).
For example, today a league with 12 teams play 132 home- & away matches. To have the same number of matches in a straight knock-out tournament you need to start either with 256 teams (128 matches). In a league or in the current CL format the teams get two bites at the cherry because they meet each other twice, in which case you could run with 64 teams.
64 teams means on average 1 team per state in the USA. In the FA cup, but not in the ladies´ CL, the stronger teams enter the competition later. In other words, the first couple of rounds weed out the weaker teams and get the less weak a chance to advance. If you start with 128 teams you would have 2 per state + 28 extra.
In the FA cup and also in the ladies´ CL cup, each round is drawn -- ie there is no seeding. The men´s CL is more like a world cup with matches in groups with seeding followed by the knockout phase, all home-&-away. Maybe if the men´s CL was the model it might work for the FALCUS or US-alpha-Cup?
Richard Murray said:What is the biggest detriment to this path being chosen LArs?
Lars Breimer said:Agreed. An excellent idea. The USALFA Cup. Or, maybe, the FALCUS.
Richard Murray said:I think the next replacement for top tier womens soccer in the USA shouldn't be another leauge but a US Open Cup for Women designed like the UEFA CL, nothing is stopping it from happening now
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on
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I do not think that I am that perceptive, Richard old bean because it is a long accepted tradition that ladies are not necessarily expected to compete in exactly the same way as men, or if they do a different standard applies. The question is why ladies playing certain team sports are met with not just derision but rabid hatred? Why?
Ladies play tennis on the same courts as men but play best of 3 sets rather than 5. Ladies play golf on courses with a lower par than men. In cross-country skiing ladies today ski 10, 15 and 30 km while the men do 15, 30 and 50 km, and in the sprint competitons men often do 2 laps of the track while the ladies do less. In Alpine skking, the ladies do not ski the Hahnenkamm or Lauberhorn. Biathlon (ski-shooting) is an interesting compromise because both men and women get the same time penalty (1 min per missed shot) in the distance race and when they ski the penalty round it is the same length so the men ski it faster than the ladies. The result is that ladies shoot more accurately than men.
Nevertheless, women performers have become legends. Because so many wanted to watch Suzanne Lenglen, Wimbledon moved and built its famous Centre Court. The equipment manufacturers have loved the rivalry between Vonn and Riesch, and no doubt hope that Rebensburg will learn to do all the disciplines. Annika Sörenstam is a legend in her life-time. Who are the three best-known biathletes? The two Magdalenas and Ole Einar. As long as the Tour de Ski is run, Charlotte Kalla´s great finish will be shown over and over again.
It is abundantly clear that FIFA want to grow the ladies´ game. The men´s game is mature on a world level. Football can only increase by developing the ladies´ side. Here is a whole new market to be exploded. Maybe the ladies´ game has to be tweaked marginally to achieve this; why not? Even Ms Morgan does not play in body-paint even if she is pleased to pose in it.
To put it on its head, who is better known in USA – Wombach and Morgan or the Williams sisters?
Richard Murray said:I think you may have placed the largest question for women's sports in general. Do women get player playing the sports the way men play them or do sport rules change when women play them. Many women are against changing soccer's rules for them. Personally, looking at Lyon, I dont think it needs changing. We just have to wait it out. Women will get there, but they need time. It took time for the mens game to get this fast, why can't truly professional womens soccer be given a century as well? But, regardless of that query, womens soccer in the USA may make a change of how the game is played, but I doubt the change will occur outside of the USA.;
Lars Breimer said:Your point is well taken, Richard, but I think the approach must be much more radical. If a product does not sell one has two options. One can either market it better unchanged or tweak it to make it more appealing. Essentially, define what job the product does and make sure it does it. The customer is always right. USA has twice rejected women´s professional soccer and the professional game is only surviving in Europe because of subsidies.
The path of tweaking the product is illustrated by rugby and women´s basketball. The game of rugby today is very different from 45 years ago. The Rugby Union realised that the game was losing appeal and started to experiment with law changes to make it more entertaining, attractive if you prefer. They succeeded. Women play basket with a slightly smaller ball and slightly longer shot clock and shorter playing time. The ladies´ Final Four has great viewing figures and quite a lot of college games are televised. High time to tweak the game of ladies´ soccer to improve its performance.
It is too late to make rule changes in the Olympic tournament but next season is a good one to experiment in because Euro-13 will be a watershed. It simply has to succeed. My proposal would be:
-- a) a slightly smaller ball to make ball control possible;
-- b) 40 min halves.
I am aware that these ideas are not original and have been rejected in the past but these are desperate times.
As regards expanding the customer base one can either extend its borders bit by bit or identify a totally unexploited market and take it. Colour TV or plasma screens are examples of product improvement while the transistor radio is a good example of opening up a whole new market. Ladies´ football needs to find its transistor radio.
Richard Murray said:great community call. i think locally it needs to be a greater all community to community. all men sports started smaller, not larger, like womens sports today.
Lars Breimer said:The award of the 2015 world cup to Canada fits with a strategy by FIFA (and UEFA) to get women´s professional soccer up and running again in USA. The opportunity for young ladies to come and play in USA and for a large pool of north-American ladies being available to go and play abroad, seems fundamental to the success of ladies soccer in whatever country. Verily, ladies´ football could become a whole new aspect of international interaction and relationships. The US State Department ought to see this opportunity and get in on the act.
Women Soccer United can help by kicking around ideas how to build on the ruins of previous attempts and get ladies´ professional soccer going in USA. An enormous number of girls in America play soccer as they grow up, which is not the case in other countries, so the pool of talent is there. Maybe if each person could provide one single idea or suggestion that they would consider most important for success, then something might emerge. As the readers and commentators in this forum watch women´s soccer matches, what strikes them as the missing ingredient or something which seems to make a difference. Each one will have their take on the issue and there are no right or wrong ideas at this stage.
To make it more real. Imagine that you are sitting next to a very wealthy person at dinner who says: “I am thinking of investing in women´s soccer in USA. With what should I start? Please give me one or two, but not twenty, pointers!”
Richard Murray said:We agree state based is best but for small states or certain regions region is best.
I have no problem with the CL's changes over the years. Yes, it is unfair but on the other hand, people want to see the best and giving advantages to the best still doesnt undermine unpredictability, Real and Barca were not in the final. I have no problem with the womens CL mirroring the mens, I would say, women need instead of a second tier in UEFA, a different tournament. My problem with the CL and the Europa is that they collide. For women's soccer the uefa womens CL should be for the top teams in the league tables and they should have a womens euro for the cup tournament champions and runners up. The womens CL and womens Euro can be the same time of the week and represent the difference between teams strong in league seasons[CL] and teams strong in cup tournaments[EUro] it would also make a matchup of the champions to start the uefa season honest as the members of the compeititon would be from two different pathways completely. The men make the mistake of letting the losers in the UEFA CL go into the euro and letting the league tables decide who goes into the euro. LEague and cup play are different. the women can use the UEFA womens CL to let the best in league have it out, but they can use a womens euro to focus on cup play seperately.
Lars Breimer said:By state would be best because people associate with their state. On the other hand you have the New England Patriots in the NFL, so the principle of a regional team with a stadium in an outer suburb of the biggest town is established in USA.
The UEFA men´s CL consists of group-play (home & away) followed by a knockout competition also home & away. The final is played as one single match. Teams that get knocked out early go to a second men´s cup (the Europa cup). My criticism of how the men´s CL is organised is that UEFA has sold out to capital and size. So far the ladies CL has not, though there are worrying trends. (There is no second tier UEFA cup for ladies.)
Briefly, in the men´s CL the big country leagues get more slots than the smaller country leagues, and some small countries even have to qualify in. In the old UEFA system there were 3 different cups but essentially countries had (almost) equal entry. Well understood, the small fry disappeared early but, occasionally you got a giant killing, which is what sport needs. Fairness and unpredicatbility.
Marketing and sales want an easy life with big numbers, and since the business of America is business, this plague will be visited on women´s soccer in USA unless the USA FA learns from the NFL. The NHL eventually did but it took them an awfully long time, and they are not quite there yet.
Given how cheap ladies soccer is, it is amazing that there is not a functioning ladies´ league in USA. Maybe the achilles heal is the high quality of the university (college) system?
Richard Murray said:You know my views, definitely regionality, i prefer by state, but I think the idea of yu and others by geosocial region is fine as well
and i referred to the mens CL in my little thesis. I think it definitely has to be like the uefa men's CL. And, those numbers you give can work.
Lars Breimer said:The number of matches would be one issue. Another might be the travel (unless regionalised).
For example, today a league with 12 teams play 132 home- & away matches. To have the same number of matches in a straight knock-out tournament you need to start either with 256 teams (128 matches). In a league or in the current CL format the teams get two bites at the cherry because they meet each other twice, in which case you could run with 64 teams.
64 teams means on average 1 team per state in the USA. In the FA cup, but not in the ladies´ CL, the stronger teams enter the competition later. In other words, the first couple of rounds weed out the weaker teams and get the less weak a chance to advance. If you start with 128 teams you would have 2 per state + 28 extra.
In the FA cup and also in the ladies´ CL cup, each round is drawn -- ie there is no seeding. The men´s CL is more like a world cup with matches in groups with seeding followed by the knockout phase, all home-&-away. Maybe if the men´s CL was the model it might work for the FALCUS or US-alpha-Cup?
Richard Murray said:What is the biggest detriment to this path being chosen LArs?
Lars Breimer said:Agreed. An excellent idea. The USALFA Cup. Or, maybe, the FALCUS.
Richard Murray said:I think the next replacement for top tier womens soccer in the USA shouldn't be another leauge but a US Open Cup for Women designed like the UEFA CL, nothing is stopping it from happening now
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Permalink Reply by Richard Murray on
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you make an excellent point but you forget one thing, womens tennis has been professional at a high level far longer than women's soccer.
It goes back to my point about time. Paid women athletes at tennis tournaments is one of the oldest PRofessional athletic women's activities. Women's soccer has been around a long time but professionally only in my view for the past few years in a serious way.
yes, women's tennis and other women's sports has a different form than their mens and thus women's soccer should follow suit, probabilistically. But, time is also needed.
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on
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I hope you are right, Richard my learned friend, I hope you are right.
Football differs from (nearly) all other sports in that no special equipment is needed. All you need is a ball and a reasonably level piece of ground. It does not even have to be grassed; compacted sand will do.
The women sports, that I itemized, all require special equipments. Tennis rackets, golf clubs, skis and ski-bindings etc etc. In other words, there is a manufacturer involved who wants to sell -- not just to men flush with cash, but also to young ladies and their parents! The young ladies who want to do those sports have an ally in business. A wonderful thing to have.
I read the news today, oh boy, about how BBC2 showed live the Euro-13 qualifying game between the English ladies and the Dutch. That is a MAJOR break-through. A ladies QUALIFYING match shown live on a public channel in the UK. Vow!! What next? Pigs might fly?
Ladies soccer needs an advocate. Someone to take ti to the next level. Body-paint is a blind alley.
Richard Murray said:you make an excellent point but you forget one thing, womens tennis has been professional at a high level far longer than women's soccer.
It goes back to my point about time. Paid women athletes at tennis tournaments is one of the oldest PRofessional athletic women's activities. Women's soccer has been around a long time but professionally only in my view for the past few years in a serious way.
yes, women's tennis and other women's sports has a different form than their mens and thus women's soccer should follow suit, probabilistically. But, time is also needed.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Murray on
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Pigs are flying my friend:)
Lars Breimer said:I hope you are right, Richard my learned friend, I hope you are right.
Football differs from (nearly) all other sports in that no special equipment is needed. All you need is a ball and a reasonably level piece of ground. It does not even have to be grassed; compacted sand will do.
The women sports, that I itemized, all require special equipments. Tennis rackets, golf clubs, skis and ski-bindings etc etc. In other words, there is a manufacturer involved who wants to sell -- not just to men flush with cash, but also to young ladies and their parents! The young ladies who want to do those sports have an ally in business. A wonderful thing to have.
I read the news today, oh boy, about how BBC2 showed live the Euro-13 qualifying game between the English ladies and the Dutch. That is a MAJOR break-through. A ladies QUALIFYING match shown live on a public channel in the UK. Vow!! What next? Pigs might fly?
Ladies soccer needs an advocate. Someone to take ti to the next level. Body-paint is a blind alley.
Richard Murray said:you make an excellent point but you forget one thing, womens tennis has been professional at a high level far longer than women's soccer.
It goes back to my point about time. Paid women athletes at tennis tournaments is one of the oldest PRofessional athletic women's activities. Women's soccer has been around a long time but professionally only in my view for the past few years in a serious way.
yes, women's tennis and other women's sports has a different form than their mens and thus women's soccer should follow suit, probabilistically. But, time is also needed.
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Permalink Reply by 2xehxtxemyk65 on
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Bring on those flying pigs, Richard old trout, and pair them up with some amazing dancing bears!
We are back almost where we started this pilgrimage. Please can someone define what this product of Ladies´ Football is, and what its target market is? What job does Women´s Soccer do? And why should anyone hire (buy) it? What is its main competitor? And what holds it back?
In short, pigs flying or bears dancing apart, let´s map out the path ahead. It should not be necessary for ladies´ soccer to go to its Stalingrad to win; the ladies´ Trafalgar will do. We want to avoid Canossa, for sure.
Richard Murray said:Pigs are flying my friend:)
Lars Breimer said:I hope you are right, Richard my learned friend, I hope you are right.
Football differs from (nearly) all other sports in that no special equipment is needed. All you need is a ball and a reasonably level piece of ground. It does not even have to be grassed; compacted sand will do.
The women sports, that I itemized, all require special equipments. Tennis rackets, golf clubs, skis and ski-bindings etc etc. In other words, there is a manufacturer involved who wants to sell -- not just to men flush with cash, but also to young ladies and their parents! The young ladies who want to do those sports have an ally in business. A wonderful thing to have.
I read the news today, oh boy, about how BBC2 showed live the Euro-13 qualifying game between the English ladies and the Dutch. That is a MAJOR break-through. A ladies QUALIFYING match shown live on a public channel in the UK. Vow!! What next? Pigs might fly?
Ladies soccer needs an advocate. Someone to take ti to the next level. Body-paint is a blind alley.
Richard Murray said:you make an excellent point but you forget one thing, womens tennis has been professional at a high level far longer than women's soccer.
It goes back to my point about time. Paid women athletes at tennis tournaments is one of the oldest PRofessional athletic women's activities. Women's soccer has been around a long time but professionally only in my view for the past few years in a serious way.
yes, women's tennis and other women's sports has a different form than their mens and thus women's soccer should follow suit, probabilistically. But, time is also needed.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Murray on
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haha!
Lars Breimer said:Bring on those flying pigs, Richard old trout, and pair them up with some amazing dancing bears!
We are back almost where we started this pilgrimage. Please can someone define what this product of Ladies´ Football is, and what its target market is? What job does Women´s Soccer do? And why should anyone hire (buy) it? What is its main competitor? And what holds it back?
In short, pigs flying or bears dancing apart, let´s map out the path ahead. It should not be necessary for ladies´ soccer to go to its Stalingrad to win; the ladies´ Trafalgar will do. We want to avoid Canossa, for sure.
Richard Murray said:Pigs are flying my friend:)
Lars Breimer said:I hope you are right, Richard my learned friend, I hope you are right.
Football differs from (nearly) all other sports in that no special equipment is needed. All you need is a ball and a reasonably level piece of ground. It does not even have to be grassed; compacted sand will do.
The women sports, that I itemized, all require special equipments. Tennis rackets, golf clubs, skis and ski-bindings etc etc. In other words, there is a manufacturer involved who wants to sell -- not just to men flush with cash, but also to young ladies and their parents! The young ladies who want to do those sports have an ally in business. A wonderful thing to have.
I read the news today, oh boy, about how BBC2 showed live the Euro-13 qualifying game between the English ladies and the Dutch. That is a MAJOR break-through. A ladies QUALIFYING match shown live on a public channel in the UK. Vow!! What next? Pigs might fly?
Ladies soccer needs an advocate. Someone to take ti to the next level. Body-paint is a blind alley.
Richard Murray said:you make an excellent point but you forget one thing, womens tennis has been professional at a high level far longer than women's soccer.
It goes back to my point about time. Paid women athletes at tennis tournaments is one of the oldest PRofessional athletic women's activities. Women's soccer has been around a long time but professionally only in my view for the past few years in a serious way.
yes, women's tennis and other women's sports has a different form than their mens and thus women's soccer should follow suit, probabilistically. But, time is also needed.
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